+UPDATE: The offender has finally replied and, after some prodding on my part, confessed his theft and repented (removed the template). I’m taking this on faith, not in him but in Christ, that he means it and will take steps to change whatever it is in his heart which made him sin in this way. If you feel compelled, pray for him, for his heart to be changed, and for others whose hearts may be leading them down a similar path, that God would send the Spirit to intervene and save us all days like this.+
Well, it’s official. I’m now a great designer, because someone has stolen my work. No, I don’t mean “inspired by” stolen - I mean “viewed source and ripped” stolen.
If you remember earlier in the year I started selling some Wordpress templates. I did put out a few free ones, but there were about 4-5 I kept in my store for sale. I recently saw one of these templates on some guy’s blog and it happens to be a template I haven’t sold any of yet, so obviously I was surprised to see it at all. At first I thought I did sell one and I forgot, but “Shopify](http://shopify.com has this cool thing called a database, which keeps track of all of my sales. Cool, huh? So I didn’t sell this particular template to anyone. And yet…
This guy, a guy who says on his About page “First and foremost I am a Christian…” I get lost after the … because WHAT THE HECK?!`!? I’m not going to say who the guy is at this point or link to his blog because I want to give him the benefit of doubt, that maybe someone else stole the template and is out there providing it to others. Either way, I hope the guy reads this post (or the email I sent him) and gets back to me with some kind of explanation because 1) if it’s him that did this it sucks, for me, for the name of God…. and 2) if it’s someone else distributing my work, that’s illegal and bad for everyone, especially my family who could use the extra cash that template would have brought.
The only way anyone could have gotten ahold of this template was from my demo site where I have all of my templates live so people can test them out before they buy. Sadly, I’m forced to password-protect the site now and people will have to email me for a temporary password. My husband asked me why I hadn’t password protected the site before and I told him it’s because it’s like locking the doors to your store because someone stole a T-shirt. You can’t lock out all of your customers because you had one criminal.
It sucks, I hate it, but what I hate more is that this guy is a Christian. I know of him from other circles on the web where I’ve seen his name. I’ve even seen his blog before so I wonder now if his other templates were stolen too. I hate that people so blatantly steal from good people, hard working people, like me and my friends on the ‘net who’ve been stolen from. I’ve always stuck up for them against their thieves.
Actually, looking at his blog some more, I’m seeing he’s taking credit for designing some other sites which are also stolen templates. One is a Shopify theme designed by “Jimmy Nordlund](http://digitalvenues.se that he just added a logo to and another is just a tacky tweak of “Kyle Neath’s](http://www.warpspire.com/ famous “Hemingway](http://warpspire.com/hemingway theme, which ironically the stylesheet credits someone else entirely for the design. I so wish I could tell you who this guy is now! I’m still being the good girl here and I’ll wait for him to reply. I think I’ll give him another 24 hours and then the gloves come off.
I know this thief will get his (or hers) in the end, because there was “that other Christian guy](http://dennisbullock.com earlier in the year who was stealing blog posts from everywhere and he’s “nowhere to be found](http://forksintheroad.com online anymore, but it still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
So Merry Christmas to me and my family this year as one more jerk out there has proven there are still evil people in the world. I’m not totally dense to that fact, but I still hate to hear it. Christmas is about giving, not taking, but for some taking is so natural they have no idea when they’re crossing the line between borrowing and stealing.
Tip for the kiddos out there who are beginning designers: you can’t put your logo on something, change a few small details, strip the credit line in the footer, and call it your design any more than you can steal a car from the mall, replace the tires, give it a new paint job, and call it your car. The judge will still lock you up for theft if not for insanity.
Salazar left a comment on December 1, 2006 at 12:09 pm | #
I had no idea that Dennis was stealing posts. That guy used to comment on my website a lot. I only noticed recently that he was nowhere to be found.
I’m sorry about your troubles. You feel violated, I know…
ALIEM left a comment on December 1, 2006 at 12:41 pm | #
That’s unfortunate… but I must say that I can’t believe I’m reading this post today as just last night I was thinking about this exact issue.
For one, I know that people look for sites for inspiration. Actually, I really like your design and have been studying its layout for my new blog. I haven’t touched or even looked at the code, I was just more interested in why the layout worked, the ratios of sizing, and colour scheme. What I do is take 3-5 designs I like (like this one), look at them at length, take my requirements and start from scratch. I find that this never results in a design that is close to the same as any other one… and if it did, I would change it of course. Also, giving credit is important if a design is heavily inspired by another…
Then there are the people who copy and paste designs and hack them up. It’s too bad this happens… but I actually know of people who do this, but they only copy big corporate sites. I’m not particularly fond of this practice… but I prefer them copying big corporate sites and not personal or smaller sites.
I could think of one really simple hack that may deter some people. Embed some javascript in some “file” that pings back the source IP to a web log (i.e. – google analytics). If the source is not you, then someone has copied your code. Of course they could remove this… but most people who copy code are too lazy to even scan code.
Another solution which would require a corporation like google to do, would be a code comparison. They should allow people to sort search results by code similarities. You could enter the source address, and then it would return results in the order of most similar. This would be a very intensive search, but it could catch the blatant copies.
Scott left a comment on December 1, 2006 at 2:08 pm | #
Natalie,
This is just me, but sometimes kindness just doesn’t work – giving the benefit of the doubt gives great insight into you as a person just as the theft gives insight into the person who ripped your work.
If it were me, I’d just out the person and let it all sort itself out. “If” he was ripped by someone else, let him explain that, you don’t need to :)
Certainly, I hope this get’s cleared up for your sake – but I think it’s about time people start letting it be known immediately. Public humiliation and shame is a good thing.
Abdul left a comment on December 1, 2006 at 2:29 pm | #
I wouldn’t know how it really feels to have someone steal your work and say it’s theirs but just after reading that I think I can gather some sort of idea.
Anyway, it prompted me to say that the look of my blog was styled by someone else although I wasn’t claiming it to be done by me and that person didn’t really mind whether we gave credit to them or not.
I hope you can resolve this issue.
Natalie Jost left a comment on December 1, 2006 at 2:55 pm | #
I’m not particularly fond of this practice but I prefer them copying big corporate sites and not personal or smaller sites. It doesn’t matter who you steal from. That kind of rationale is what makes people think they can steal a CD from Best Buy because Best Buy is a big corporation (but no way, don’t steal from Mom and Pop Records on the corner, that’s bad). Thank you for the other ideas though. It’s just tough to spend all that time building security for something that should be guarded by simple human decency.
Scott, you may be right, but since I actually am trying very hard to be a good Christian here I’ll hold off for now. Back with the Dennis fiasco it took 3 months behind the scenes with him before I outed him and even then I felt bad about it. I have to go with my gut (Holy Spirit) here and give him a shot at redeeming himself to me personally first.
Abdul, you’re using Phu’s Simpla theme and it’s a great one. I know a lot of designers who give away free themes don’t mind if you take the credit line out, but in many circles the absence of a credit gives credit to the blog owner, which means you’re taking credit for the design simply by removing the credit. Personally, I think it’s just courteous to leave the credit there because the ONLY real reason you could have for removing it is to hide the fact that someone else designed it.
The bottom line in your case is that you know from the designer personally that they don’t mind the credit being there. In my case, the guy doesn’t have permission to use the template in the first place. This is beyond stealing intellectual property. He has stolen a physical product (the result of that intellectual work), which is far easier to prove and prosecute.
reese left a comment on December 1, 2006 at 3:48 pm | #
ahhh, completely unrrelated, but you’re the first person I’ve read who also associates the “gut” with the Holy Spirit :) I have always thought that when my gut is talking to me, it’s God’s way of communicating through the Holy Spirit.
Also, I liked aliem’s ideas on some sort of google code comparison. I think (I wish I had the knowledge to do this) if a developer came up with an app that tracked my code for me (and not just my content), I’d pay a small amount each month for that service. I’m so sorry your stuff got ripped. It’s happened to me a few times, and it’s incredibly frustrating, ESPECIALLY when the ripper in question sees no harm in their actions or denies the theft. :(
Jamis left a comment on December 2, 2006 at 2:26 pm | #
Man, that really stinks. Sorry you had to endure that. What I do, is that when I like a certain style I’d like to learn, I use a site as a reference. That means I take a look and analyze what gives “this style” its flavor. Then I start designing. Usually the end product looks nothing like the original, it just uses similar techniques.
I look at code sometimes to figure out how somebody did something, but I’d consider this being “inspired” :).
To Aliem: How would you recommend giving credit for being inspired by a design? On the blog, the journal entry?
aliem left a comment on December 2, 2006 at 7:22 pm | #
“It doesn’t matter who you steal from. That kind of rationale is what makes people think they can steal a CD from Best Buy”
I agree. Actually, from a purely ethical standpoint it’s wrong and that’s that. My point of view is a more pragmatic, anti-capitalistic, perspective that some people choose to do (ie ““ hippies). I suppose I shouldn’t approve of this either. Also, to argue further against my initial thought, it’s often lone contractors who develop the designs for big companies anyway, not the big companies themselves.
“How would you recommend giving credit for being inspired by a design? On the blog, the journal entry?”
In the “credits or about” section is a good idea. Providing a link to a website is the best thing you can do since it actually results in a higher ranking for the website. I had an experience once where I used a graphic which I “thought” was from a free library I had received. Actually, I had actually used a professionals graphic by accident and used it as the main logo. He emailed me about the situation, I explained myself to him (my ignorance about the ownership and my apologies), then provided a link to his website right on the main front page. He was happy with the resolution. It probably helped that the site this was for receives a lot of hits per month and would help out his business. In this case, what I did was bad but I did it out of ignorance which is not an excuse either but better than having bad intentions and acting out the intention.
As for categorizing something as “inspired”… I think this is trickier as it’s not black or white. I suppose you could define some heuristic guideline that would aid in defining when you should give credit, but I believe it should be something you know in your gut. I know that none of my designs were the result of any one site and I rarely end up using anything from the sites I use for inspiration. I find they just help me kick start the design brainstorm. But I know people who are in the business of web design, and are not artistic at all, and so this process is much more different for them they do not diverge from the original design enough.
There is this web site which hosts a database of fraudulent web designs. They accept user submissions to catch people who copy designs. I wish I had the site on hand, but if anyone has it, I think this would be a good tool for us it keeps copiers accountable to some degree.
Natalie Jost left a comment on December 2, 2006 at 8:40 pm | #
But I know people who are in the business of web design, and are not artistic at all, and so this process is much more different for them… they do not diverge from the original design enough.
You’re right there, which is why it’s my personal belief that design should be left to the artistic, else it’s just flipping out some combination of rules or generic formula for a website, and “inspired” turns quickly to borrowed and then right on to stolen. If you can’t build something from scratch WITHOUT ANY KIND OF OUTSIDE INFLUENCE, you are not a designer (creator), you are a manipulator of pre-created content.
Scott left a comment on December 3, 2006 at 12:56 pm | #
Natalie,
I’m glad you got this issue cleared up and I’m happy you’re feeling better about the situation.
Sometimes using a heavy hand is the best way to get a message across. I tend to think a kind, well-thought approach, being mindful of the circumstances is best, which is certainly how you operate.
I just know I’m sick of this type of thing ““ it’s getting really bad. I hope the individual has learned an lesson. Send him my way, if he wants some psd’s to learn from, I’m more than happy to send him some and help him with his craft!
All the best!
Scott
tudor left a comment on December 3, 2006 at 3:29 pm | #
I’m a rather sub-par designer in my opinion, which is why oftentimes I enjoy working with some talented designers (who aren’t so into the development end of things) and transforming their mockups into code. If someone else can design it better, I’m happy to sit in the developer’s chair.
That said, I think the majority of today’s live websites sport designs that were at least in part inspired from various other sites on the web. Reinventing the wheel with every design would be lunacy ““ best practices come about through sharing and, yes, inspiration. To throw inspiration out of the creative process would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater, at least in my view.
Natalie Jost left a comment on December 3, 2006 at 5:17 pm | #
Scott thanks. It’s tough to stay godly when you’re angry and this made me angry, even moreso last night when I read another email from him which I’d missed. His first email denied any wrong-doing, claiming he had downloaded it from a template site but he couldn’t remember which one. I didn’t read that because he had sent it to my work email which I don’t read on the weekends much. His second email was all repentant because I had pushed him to tell me the truth. Had I known he lied the first time I’d have gone ahead and outed him. I almost did last night because I was just so mad, but I left the computer, talked it out with my Groom and realized that wouldn’t be the right thing to do, much as I wanted to do the wrong thing, you know?
So I’m still praying he’ll take this as a close call (because I could have done much worse than humiliate him) and not do this sort of thing again.
In a way I’m glad this happened because it’s inspired a new article I’m working on, about designing originally and not using outside sources. It will be tough for people to hear, particularly from designer wannabes, but I don’t think it’s lunacy at all, Tudor.
Lunacy is taking on a profession which you’re not qualified to take on and asking the rest of the world to lower their standards to match your output, or worse, snagging the benefits of other peoples’ talent and hard work without getting dirty yourself.
That said, I’m not saying designers (real designers) aren’t inspired by others, but it’s a wholly subliminal thing. It’s inspiration by accident, if you will; it’s NOT Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V rearrange, tweak this, hack that. It’s more like there’s this great curve to so-and-so’s typography that I love, go to veer.com, browse typefaces, purchase a similar font, download, tweak from scratch, double check back with so-and-so to make sure I didn’t inadvertently copy that same look. Of course that’s over simplifying and the process is much more involved, but you get the idea, right? It’s not copying in any way, which is what you may be mistaking for inspiration.
Most of the time when designers are inspired, I doubt that inspiration came from viewing anyone’s source, and I KNOW it didn’t come from copying and pasting anything. More often it comes from a lot of education, a long career, and just a general “˜know-how’ that artistic people have.
For the record, I do think developers can design things when there’s an immediate need and they have to throw something together, but I also think those developers should do the best they can with what they have and not go to designers to do their work for them without paying them, which is what you do when you copy a designer’s work (even if you give credit, and even if you tweak it to make it look “different”). I don’t go around copying php and javascript, tweaking a few commands and calling it my own. I won’t even look at your source if it’s yours. You created it, you built that script and unless you’ve given me permission to look under the hood and have at it, it’s not my place. I’ll purchase a script, pay a developer directly, or just go without and do what I can with what I have, and I’m no less of a designer for it. You’re no less of a developer (or less of a person) if you have a crummy looking website that’s completely original. In fact, you’re a much better developer ““ and a better person ““ than the guy who is “inspired” in the wrong way.
Be careful, friends, that you don’t get so caught up in what your site looks like to the world that you forget what YOU look like to the world, and more importantly, to God, who judges you even when you think no one else knows what you did.
Christopher Scott left a comment on December 3, 2006 at 10:03 pm | #
Natalie, I can empathize with you. This same exact thing happened to me about a month ago (How NOT To Steal A Design ), but the guy never bothered to change the javascript that tracks my stats. It’s unfortunate, that for someone like you who spends so much time perfecting their designs, a lazier, less than ethical person can steal the whole thing in a matter of minutes.
Someone ended up digging the article, which set off a string of angry comments, and the company that stole the design began to get angry emails from the community. They’ve since changed the code, but I’m still sort of offended.
On the plus side, though, you are a great designer, and this should be a testament to that fact.
“Lunacy is taking on a profession which you’re not qualified to take on and asking the rest of the world to lower their standards to match your output”
Perfectly put. That quote is going on the fridge. :)
Natalie Jost left a comment on December 3, 2006 at 11:00 pm | #
Christopher that’s amazing. I can’t say I haven’t heard of bozos like that before but it still surprises me when I do. It IS a little funny on the surface, but still painful to the designer, ESPECIALLY if it’s your own blog design! Stealing a template I have for sale is bad enough, but if someone every stole my identity (my blog) I think you’d all really see the wrath of Natalie. So let’s not let that happen, k? :)
Oh, and I’m glad that quote inspired you. I was sort of in rant mode, so good to know it wasn’t totally incoherent. ;)
tudor left a comment on December 4, 2006 at 11:19 am | #
That’s exactly the type of healthy inspiration I’m talking about. Copying from source and lifting graphics is absolutely intolerable and does NOT count as “inspiration”. I understand that you’re reacting against the blatant theft of your hard work and that of other designers. That kind of crap is unacceptable under any circumstances. There are no two ways about that.
It’s just that “˜WITHOUT ANY KIND OF OUTSIDE INFLUENCE’ seems pretty extreme. After all, it’s too late ““ if we’ve surfed the web once, we’ve already been influenced to some degree. I don’t think outlawing benign visits to colleagues’ websites for creative fuel would be right or wise, either. Studying the final product of other designers’ innovation (yes, while taking great pains to avoid plagiarism) can lead to more exploration and learning on our part and only serves to better our own contributions to the community. Designers should always work with their heads up and eyes open to where the community is heading, and that requires the occasional research for inspiration fodder. In my experience with the designers I’ve worked with, that’s par for the course.
DavidR left a comment on December 5, 2006 at 5:52 am | #
Aliem and Reese mention the possibility of searching code and Google. Maybe they already know about Google Code Search which I first heard about at this blog.
I don’t know if that will help designers track or discover stolen code but it might!
Natalie Jost left a comment on December 5, 2006 at 9:03 am | #
Thanks, David.
Tudor, you read me wrong. If you go back to my original post (and my comments here), you should be able to get that I’m not against those outside influences ““ even though I didn’t spell it out. What I meant, and what should have been clear (I apologize for not being more clear), is that I don’t think a good designer makes a habit of deliberately seeking outside influence, specifically in the way of competing resources. By that I mean it’s risky for a web designer to go digging through other websites when there are plenty of other places to gain inspiration which won’t be as easy to copy. When you’re dealing with apples and apples, it’s too easy to make a duplicate apple pie, if you know what I mean. Go browsing for oranges and you’ll find a much more diverse ““ and original ““ work. And by oranges I mean look at other design elements like architecture, print, furniture, lighting, glass, flooring is great for inspiration, or just go to the mall and look at the window displays. Take the outside world and translate it to the web and you’ll be less likely to be found copying the web, unless the web to you is all code and Photoshop, in which case you’re in trouble and I can’t help you.
AGAIN (am I repeating myself?), I realize we all are influenced by default and there’s nothing we can do to stop that, but that’s very different from pulling apart my site for your inspiration (even without copy/pasting). Do that on your own time, on your computer, to learn, but don’t ever republish the result of your playing around with other people’s ideas and consider it original. At best you’ve got a derivative work. I’m not saying you can’t design that way, but you’d be a BETTER designer if you didn’t. The question is, do you actually want to be a better designer, or are you content to be a brilliant coder who tinkers with design, in which case it’s best to stick with your own resources because otherwise you’ll always be copying whether you realize it or not. I mean that as lovingly as possible. You’re NOT a designer; you said so yourself. So listen to what I’m saying. Keep hiring out the work to other designers or be content with what you yourself are capable of producing and don’t worry about it being beautiful or spectacular. Keep learning and drawing inspiration on the side (we all have to start somewhere), but on the work which you actually publish, stick with what you know, because you don’t want to be accidentally found a scab - just not worth the risk.
Chris left a comment on December 5, 2006 at 10:57 am | #
Something very similar happened to a friend back in the spring. Check it out. Sheesh. ~c
Josh Byers left a comment on December 5, 2006 at 12:36 pm | #
Hey Natalie,
Thanks for taking the high road with this situation. You’ve been a great example and very biblical on how to handle personal wrongs.
I was on the other end once and was accused of ripping off a design and then outed in a public forum. Even though I was innocent I felt sick and embarrassed for days and I still struggle with bitterness towards the individual that did it. You definitely handled it correctly, because as you said, what if he had someone else had designed his blog and they were the ones who ripped it off?
Anyway, thanks for letting Christ shine in your life and living up to your blog’s name.
Natalie Jost left a comment on December 5, 2006 at 12:54 pm | #
Josh, thanks. I can’t imagine being on the other end of that, but I do know how mean people in the design community can be when someone does appear to be copying. Even so, it’s not necessary to degrade people. And yet, it’s so difficult to change how we feel. I know I tend to get more upset when it’s a Christian who does it because it makes the rest of us (and God) look bad by default. It’s good to hear I can live up to my blog name, if not Christ’s :) I’m still angry in my heart but I’m working on it.
ALIEM left a comment on December 6, 2006 at 12:07 pm | #
Just an additional note to the idea of “outside influences”. I suppose a good rule of thumb may be that when you design a new project, you should aim to use alternative means for inspiration so that there is less conflict of interest.
So if you were designing a web site, using a magazine would be a safer start and vice versa.
It’s still quite a fine line though, and I still believe that real designers just know it within when they are doing something genuine.
I wonder about the instance where someone creates a site and unknowingly copies another sites layout very closely. I guess this topic is really a philosophical + law/ethics issue that someone experienced may be able to provide real grounds for guidance.
Natalie Jost left a comment on December 6, 2006 at 12:13 pm | #
From my own experience, one would be kidding themselves to say they unknowingly copied something. It would be a monumental coincidence, worthy of bronzing and landmarking, for a site like say, Faulkner Winery to just happen to look like a Joyent/Cork’d love child on accident. Sometimes it’s just obvious. The sad thing is that it’s often only obvious to the trained eye, ie the designer, ie not the ones who make the legal decisions.
tudor left a comment on December 6, 2006 at 12:48 pm | #
Thanks for putting up with my jabbering Natalie, just trying to get a better handle on what you meant. I think we’re on the same page, though. There’s a big difference between appropriating someone else’s design (in part or in whole) for your own use vs. taking note of conceptual things like the way whitespace interacts with so-and-so’s headline. The fact that people interpret the former as “˜inspiration’ kind of irks me, too.
Aliem, swapping media for inspiration is a pretty cool idea that I’ll keep in mind for the next time I have a design gig!
ALIEM left a comment on December 6, 2006 at 7:15 pm | #
Alright this whole incident has really gotten me thinking more about this problem. I’ve tried finding that original site I had in mind which caught duplicated sites, couldn’t find the good one but I did find two good links.
The first one here: http://9rules.com/blog/2006/10/toyota-and-9rules/
is a blatant copy of 9rules logo by Toyota unbelievable.
And this site: http://pirated-sites.com/vanilla/
is a forum for catching copies. Actually, just browsing the latest post there, it looks like it’s working. I couldn’t find 3 of the sites that were copied (ie ““ it looks like they were taken down).
Bradleyscott left a comment on December 6, 2006 at 9:49 pm | #
Its been a while since I had the chance to read and comment on any of my favorite blogs. I have to admit, I always hate seeing someone doing this to anyone, especially someone who has put a lot of time and effort into their craft and trying to do right by your family, but unfortunately it will happen again and again.
I do find it nice to see you are sticking with the more difficult road and not letting anger get the best of you. Had I been in your situation I probably would have outed the person first, then had second thoughts and gone back to re-word my original post.
Well as not to drag out this topic much longer hope you have a good holiday season and that this incident doesn’t interfere with your holiday happiness. As you stated before, people will always get their own whether it be in this life or the next I know if I were this person I would hope it comes in this life because the next one is a long time to regret things like this.